Reports

Charging Ni-MH, NiCd batteries for Xbox360 controller

Tweet

My son plays TV games for Xbox360 and the cable of the controller has broken. He told that his friends used Ni-H batterries for the controller. The controller has wireless function. His freinds did not replace the cable, as it is expensive. My son bought two Ni-H batteries. I told him not to buy a charger because I can charge them by my power supply. I recommend him to buy spares.

Charging tests for Eneloop and Evolta

I charged them measured by panel meter of my big power supply at first. I happned to test Eneloop and Evolta one another. I attached two testers for measuring current and volt. One is an old analog tester which was given by my father a long time ago. The tables shows the records of charging a pair of Ni-MH batteries for Eneloop and Evolta each.

Tbl.1 Current for Eneloop

Time	Volt	Current	Note
14:21	2.68	160mA	Jun18
20:29	2.68	10mA
-	2.83	150mA
23:44	2.83	80mA
-	2.95	200mA
01:39	2.95	140mA	Jun19
10:04	2.95	50mA
15:12	2.95	55mA	Jun20
23:59	2.37		Jun27
-	2.61	150mA
21:27	2.7	150mA	Jul02
07:51	2.7	10mA	Jul03
-	2.92	200mA
10:19	2.92	135mA
10:24	2.92	125mA
11:28	2.92	30mA
16:30	3.03	140mA
16:30	3.03	110mA	Warm
17:57	2.91	300mA	Jul13
20:41	2.98	90mA	Jul14
13:18	2.42	-	Jul24
13:19	3.00	330mA
13:55	3.00	250mA
14:46	3.00	230mA
16:41	3.00	180mA
18:40	3.00	80mA
07:28	3.00	70mA	Jul25
18:58	3.00	70mA	warm

Tbl.2 Current for Evolta

Time	Volt	Current	Note
22:42	2.44	-	Jun23
-	2.62	120mA
13:11	2.44	zero
-	2.81	210mA
02:20	2.61	-	Jul02
-	2.61	150mA
07:20	2.76	140mA
13:54	2.95	200mA
21:25	2.95	?
00:51	2.37	-	Jul08
00:53	2.80	160mA	Jul08
16:04	2.99	185mA	Jul09
19:09	2.99	80mA	Warm
19:09	2.91	20mA
00:08	2.92	40mA	Jul11
01:46	2.91	290mA	Jul17
14:05	3.03	130mA	Jul18

I found that both of Eneloop and Evolta have to charge less than 3.0V for a day. Batteries were warm, when I charged them over 3.0V for a long time. The data of Volt includes drop of current meter. The probe voltage is 40mV, when the current is 80mA. So the internal resistance is 0.5 Ohm. Drop voltage is 0.15V in case of 300mA, and is 5% of 3.0V. If I want to charge the Ni-H battery, It needs more than 60mA at least. Measuring devices are,

• Current: Sanwa SP-10D
• Volt: Sanwa SD-420C
• Power supply: Alinco DM-310MV

19:34 Jul24 GMT+9

Check charging voltage again

I usually have charged two Evolta batteries that stays at little charging current for a day or two days. I found them very warm. They broke down, because I applied too high voltage or did not stop charging at the little current. I bought two Eneloops for broken Evoltas.

Tbl.3 Low application voltage

Voltage	Current	Time
2.6V	70mA	-
2.56V	20mA	55min
2.57V	10mA	2h 29min
2.67V[1]	65mA	-
2.67V	20mA	3h 2m
2.66V	10mA	1h 23m
2.59V	10mA	10h 10m
2.59V	0mA	4h 4m

Tbl.4 Another pair of Eneloop

Voltage	Current	Time
2.61V	40mA	-
2.62V	50mA	18min
2.62V	40mA	20min
2.67V	20mA	1h 49m
2.67V	15mA	1h 38m
2.66V	10mA	31min

I measured voltage of two Eneloops, when Xbox360 controller did not work. The controller controls Xbox360 by wireless. Their voltages were 1.189V and 1.188V by Sanwa PC510. I think that termination voltage is 1.2 V not to feed current for Xbox360 controller nearly. If charging termination voltage is 0.2 V higher as lead battery, application voltage of two series will be 2.8 V. Charging currents were 20 and 50 mA, when I applied 2.4 and 2.5 V. I began charging at 2.6 V. The current was 70 mA. The table shows the result. I increased application voltage at 2.67V^[1], so the current increased at 65 mA. I started the test at 15:36 on 1 Febrauary and finished at 13:39 on 2 Febrauary.

I measured open voltage of the batteries that were 1.315 V. They applied Xbox360 for a few minutes. The open voltage dropped at 1.305 and 1.310 V each.

I charged another pair of Eneloop. The open voltage were 0.997V and 1.077V before charging. After the charge, the both batteries were 1.341V.
9:58 Feb07 2012 GMT+9

Increased charging voltage

Tbl.5 11=1.174V 12=1.183V

Voltage	Current	Time
2.85V	220mA	-
2.88V	70mA	?
2.74V[2]	0mA	13min
2.67V	20mA	8h 27m
2.72V	35mA	36min
2.73V	20mA	1h 54m
2.77V	20mA[3]	3h 41m

Tbl.6 Increased application

Voltage	Current	Time
2.71V	130mA	-
2.70V	50mA	50min
2.75V	30mA	7h 33m

The another pair of Eneloop discharged at once. I increased application voltage. The pair of Eneloop open voltage were 1.128V and 1.148V before charging. After the charge, the open voltage were 1.371V and 1.370V. Current indicator fluctuated a little, when it indicated 30mA.

I marked number of 11 and 12 for dissipated ones at once. The open voltage of 11 and 12 were 1.174V and 1.183V. I decreased application voltage that showed 2.88V.^[2] The Alinco power supply output may drift. The current indidcator fluctuated a little at the stage of 20mA.^[3] The charged open voltage of 11 and 12 were the same 1.387V. As max output voltage of DM-310MV is 15V, 0.1V is 0.6%. Usually power supply may allow a few percent of max output. I had better check power supply for Eneloop batteries to do more pecise test.
15:43 Feb07 GMT+9

Changed power supply Alinco DM-310MV for my hand-made voltage regulator

Tbl.7 21B=1.132V 22B=1.094V
21A=1.407V 22A=1.406V

Voltage	Current	Time
2.80V*	170mA	-
2.69V*	80mA	6min
2.76V*	130mA	1h 6m
2.67V	100mA	32m
2.79V	70mA	2h 28m
2.79V	70mA	48m
2.73V	40mA	7h 55m
2.77V	45mA	8min

I have changed power supply Alinco DM-310MV for hand-made voltage regulator. I charged Eneloops numbered 21 and 22. The table shows the result. The suffix A and B mean After and Before. I changed application voltage 2.80, 2.69 and 2.76V for adjusting current. * means new application voltage. Charging current decreases because the batteries generates increasing voltage. I stopped charging because the current increased. The regulator's open output was 2.86V. So there is voltage drop 0.09V because of the current meter Sanwa SP-10D. It seems tha the internal resistance is 2.1Ω. I measured 0.84Ω by Sanwa PC510 tester. I put the broken Evoltas and measured voltage across the current meter. They were 2.76V and 2.70V. The current meter indicated about 100mA. The voltages included the battery voltage. The voltage drop was 0.06V. So the internal resistance is 0.6Ω. I also measured voltage drop of the current meter by another tester PC510, when the current meter indicated 30mA at constant. The across voltage was 0.016V, the internal resistance is 0.53Ω
9:18 Feb11 GMT+9

Changed measuring true application voltage

Tbl.8 PS=2.87V before, 2.86V after
Evolta

Voltage	Current	Time
2.70V	100mA	-
2.73V	90mA	9min
2.75V	75mA	1h 44m
2.76V	70mA	36min
2.77V	60mA	2h 12m
2.78V	60mA	3h 18m
2.82V	30mA	10h 14m

Tbl.9 11B=1.213V 12B=1.216V
11A=1.428V 12A=1.428V
PS=2.87V before, 2.86V after

Voltage	Current	Time
2.65V	135mA	-
2.76V	70mA	2h 27m
2.78V	60mA	1h 47m
2.79V	55mA	2h 15m
2.79V	50mA	1h 47m
2.84V	20mA	9h 16m

I have continued the same measuring condition, when I had used another output terminal of power supply Alinco DM-310MV to measure allication voltage of Evoltas and Eneloops. I was to measure true application voltage excluding voltage drop of the current meter. Instead of it, I have to pull out the plus probe of SD-420 and push into another jack to measure the supply voltage. I charged the broken Evoltas. The table shows the result. The open voltage of charged Evoltas were 1.423V and 1.425V. My hand-made regulator drifted at 0.01V during 18h 13m. Otherwise power supply Alinco DM-310MV may drift at 0.03V quickly.

I also charged Eneloops at the same power supply voltage.
22:17 Feb12 GMT+9

Lowered application voltage to 2.83V from 2.87V

Tbl.10 Evoltas 1.413V, 1.410V
PS=2.81V before, 2.85V after

Voltage	Current	Time
2.65V	100mA	-
2.72V	70mA	1h 11m
2.75V	50mA	3h 31m
2.76V	40mA	2h 8m
2.77V	40mA	3h 59m
2.77V	35mA	3h 19m
2.78V	25mA	8h 43m
2.77V	5mA*	7h 36m**
2.78V	6.5mA*	4m
2.81V	20mA	4h 1m

Tbl.11 21B=1.194V 22B=1.192V
21A=1.417V 22A=1.416V
PS=2.83-4V before, 2.83V after

Voltage	Current	Time
2.64V	115mA	-
2.74V	50mA	4h 47m
2.75V	50mA	1h 39m
2.78V	25mA	9h 54m
2.79V	20mA	3h 32m
2.81V	10mA	4h 50m

I lowered my hand-made power supply voltage from 2.87V to 2.83V because I worried about overheat by excessing application voltage. The table shows the result. It took a long time to get charged voltage more than 2.8V. It took 24.7 hours.

Tbl.12 Impedance effect of SP-10D

Range	Measurement	Drop
500mA	25mA	25.7mV
25mA	4mA	4.57mV

I started to charge Evloltas at 2.81V of power supply. I tried the broken Evoltas to finish charging at 2.82V. They could use batteries for XBOX360 controller. I found more than 2.8V necessary for XBOX360. Although I charged for a long time, the application voltage was 2.78V. The current meter indicated 35mA at 500mA range. I was doubtful why the application voltage did not rise up in spite of 35mA. I tried 25mA range of Sanwa SP-10. Oh, it indicated only 5mA. I confirmed measuring voltage across a resistor for current measuring and excess protection by Sanwa PC510. PC510 measured 3.93mV that meant 3.93mA for nominal 1 Ω. I increased power supply voltage after 7h 36m.^** It was 2.83V. I increased 2.85V. I think that impedance of 25mA range is larger than 500mA range. I also measured at indicated 25mA. The table shows the result. Impedance of 25mA range is larger than 5.6 times. It took 23.5h to get application voltage 2.81V. The open voltage of power supply was 2.84-5V.

I happened to find that a site measured characteristics of discharg below 1V.^[1] Eneloop seems to break at 1.1V, when it loads 5Ω. I find that Xbox360 controller stops working at 1.1-1.0V. The design is reasonable, I think.
22:39 Feb23 GMT+9

Errors among testers
I knew that Sanwa SD-420C measures little than Sanwa PC510. I tried charging a pair fo NiCd batteries which I bought a few years ago. I measured the open voltage of them by PC510. They were 1.112V and 1.055V. I began to set up TDS310 with my tiny regulator. Measuremtn of TDS310 showed 2.87V of open power supply voltage, otherwise SD-420C was 2.84-5V. PC510 showed 2.873V for the same voltage. As the result of measurement of power supply, I trust PC510 and TDS310.
18:46 Feb27 GMT+9

Slip2 showed that aplication voltage increases a few mV per minute

Tbl.13 Setup of TDS310

Time DIV	Volt scale	M1	M2
25ms (2kS/s)	500mV	Mean	Mean

I removed Sanwa SD-420C and SP-10D from the measuring system. I ran TDS298, Kiri198 and Slip2 on WindowsXP Home of 400MHz PC. I tried charging two NiCd batteries and got listing of application voltage at every minute. I was surprised at less than mV order noise. I show the measuring setup of TDS310. I selected low sampling rate 2kS/s to lower A/D noise, but I did not select Tek Roll. It is too slow to display at real time. I could select 256 averaging, because signal change is very slow. M1 and M2 showed high resolution by 256 average. I have attached to a protection resisitor of 1Ω, so difference from M1 and M2 is voltatge drop by the resistor. The NiCd battery spent 70mA even at 1.4V. It took only 1h 33min.
20:47 Feb27 GMT+9

Don't NiCd and alkaline batteries apply for Xbox360 controller?
I have some NiCd batteries. I had charged two NiCd batteries at more than 1.4V. I passed them for Xbox360 wireless controller. They ran out when my family saw DVD at once. I measured the open voltage of them, 1.220V and 1.120V. I do not know why they dropped the voltages at once.

My wife gathered used alkaline batteries which were used for Xbox360 controller at home. I picked up them and measured the open voltages. I marked them numbers. They were No.1 1.251, No.2 1.251, No.3 1.239, No.4 1.252, No.5 1.254 and No.6 1.255V. All the six batteries were more than 1.25V. Why did they supply enough current? Their expirate term was December 2010. Is internal resistance very large because they were old? Their brand was Fujitsu.
22:16 Mar08 GMT+9

Slip2 showed that a used alkaline battery ran out below 0.7, 0.3 and 0.05V

I want to know that used alkaline batteries can be used for lightening LED. Some LED lights at 5 mA when a few volts load. So I measured how long application voltage kept with Tektronix TDS310, TDS298, Kiri198 and Slip2 when I loaded 2Ω. I thought that the current would run a few dozen mA at least, even if the internal resistance is large. A site shows that old alkaline battery has 1.2Ω.^[2] Slip2 showed that the application voltage dropped below 0.3V sharply,

Rec--Date----------M1 [V]
3429 1203090159 000.297
3428 1203090158 000.303
3427 1203090157 000.311
3426 1203090156 000.318
3425 1203090155 000.324
3424 1203090154 000.334
3423 1203090153 000.357
3422 1203090152 000.386
3421 1203090151 000.457
3420 1203090150 001.011
3419 1203090149 001.223

Forward voltage of diode is about 0.7V, Loss of collector-emitter of transistor is 0.3V. The load of 2Ω was too small. A used alkaline battery might run within a few mA usage. I show the listing by Slip2.

TDS298 ver1.01.0004, Kiri198 ver1.00.0031 and Slip2 at design time worked well for nine hours on Window98 of 400MHz PC.
14:28 Mar09 GMT+9

Slip21 showed charging chart

I programmed displaying a graphical chart at real time. Application Slip21 added real time chart function to show the result of Tektronix Digital Storage Oscilloscope (DSO) on Wiondows98. The charts shows the result of two different pairs of two Ni-MH batteries. Unit of Y axis is voltage. The blue lines are regulated constant voltage. The green lines are measurements of application voltage of two series of Ni-MH batteries. X axis is sampling point. 600 points mean 600 measurement times. The sampling time is 1 min. 600 points are 600 minutes (10 hours). Record numbers of Pair 2 were 4577 through 5082 in Slip.dat The measurement system is,

• Charger : My tiny regulator
• Oscilloscope : Tektronix 310
• PC : 400MHz CPU on Windows98
• Application : Slip21 including shell of TDS298
• Sampling time : 1 min sycnchronized at PC calender clock

12:31 Apr22 GMT+9

[1] Denchi no seinou hyouka
[2] Denchi no naibu-teikou to jyuden

Biwa Lake JAPAN  aboutMe
© 20011-2012 Enoki